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encouraging ex-Christians
Rants and articles submitted by and for ex-Christians
(Available as a 
)
Why are you so angry? It doesn’t make sense to be angry about God, since you don’t believe there is a God. You people are like talking to robots that only repeat their programming. I feel so sad for you. You haven’t truly experienced Jesus or you would never say the things you say. I accept that you don’t believe, but why be disrespectful of someone else’s religion? I don’t get it, why would you need encouragement in your ex-Christianity?
Various Christians regularly post these kinds of questions and quips to http://ExChristian.Net.
Since http://ExChristian.Net first went live, Christians of all denominational affiliations have posted remarks accusing ex-Christians of being bitter, unwilling to listen, not open to discussion, angry at God, angry at church, angry at Christians, or just plain angry. This emotional feeling about Christianity, say these Christians, is probably a sign that ex-Christians really know that Christianity is true. These Christians claim that if ex-Christians are truly free from religion, then they would retain no animosity toward, or interest in, Christianity. Ex-Christians, supposedly, should be able to peacefully live life, tolerant of all those who preach the Gospel, without ever expressing any negativity about Christianity. Any lingering resentment, say these Christians, shows that ex-Christians, deep down, still believe in Jesus.
Unfortunately, Christians are not the only ones who misunderstand an Ex-Christian’s frustration. Atheists, who have never had the misfortune of being entangled in the web of Christianity, occasionally level similar censures.
Margaret Thaler Singer, PhD, a clinical psychologist and former professor of psychology at UC Berkeley, did ground-breaking research on the brainwashing of American soldiers captured during the Korean War. She was often sought out by lawyers as an expert witness in high-profile cases, including the People's Temple and the mass murder-suicide at Jonestown, Guyana, as well as the Branch Davidian and Heaven's Gate cults. Over the years, she interviewed more than 4,000 current and former cult members, including Charles Manson and many of his followers. The terms post-cult trauma or post-cult syndrome were first used by Singer to describe the intense emotional problems that some cult members experience at de-conversion. According to her, abandoning a cult can be traumatic for former cult members.
For those who aren’t used to thinking of Christianity as a cult, I should probably stop here and explain. The word cult is widely used in today’s conversations to describe new religious movements outside the mainstream. These “cults” often use some form of mind-control, or brainwashing to keep adherents faithful. Although many so-called cults differ little from many mainstream religions, political correctness avoids using the negative connotations associated with the word “cult” when referencing religions with a rich history and a large following. Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Shintoism, etc, are not called cults, because they are all considered mainstream religions, and political correctness demands they always be addressed respectfully. Modern Christianity is unquestionably within the mainstream in the 21st century, but it cannot be denied that Christianity was once a new religion, a brand new cult, with beliefs that were considered quite strange by the rest of society. It seems that a cult becomes transformed into an accepted religion if the cult attracts enough followers and survives long enough. I would posit that all religions start out as cults and can accurately be called cults as long as they exist, regardless of their comparative popularity or widespread acceptance. While most mainstream Christian churches do not practice the aggressive mind-control tactics of the newer cults, a true Christian is still expected to attend church regularly, attend home meetings, get involved with ministry outreach, spend time in personal prayer and study, lead family devotions, tithe regularly, hang out with Christians, read Christian books, avoid worldly entertainment, be transformed by the renewing of the mind… The list could go on, and as any “true Christian™ knows, that list is long.
Here’s an excerpt from a recent comment posted on http://exchristian.net by a young teen who considers himself to be a true believer:
Regrettably, whether this young man or his family called it religious indoctrination, catechism, or whatever, he has been brainwashed. That washing may have been accomplished gradually over the course of several years, but it was, nonetheless, accomplished.
So, if religious training can be described as a kind of brainwashing, so what? Why the anger? Why the bitterness? Why the visceral language? Why all the venting?
The answer is simple:the trauma of leaving Christianity is no different than the trauma experienced from leaving a modern, spiritually abusive, mind-control cult.
From Wikipedia:
Another branch that could be included in this list is Christian Reconstructionism.
When a person is in a long-term, abusive relationship, nearly everything that happens within that relationship seems normal. How often do abused wives believe they deserve the abuse? How often do abused children deny that anything is wrong? However, once that person has left the abusive relationship, behavior that once seemed routine is soon recognized as aberrant. Since religious cultic behavioral patterns are meant to envelope every part of person’s life—friends, family, money, social experiences, literature, entertainment, thoughts, etc.—when a person leaves a cultic womb, that person leaves behind a significant portion of life, and it can hurt. Then, when a vigilant cultist knocks on the door to parrot rhetoric now understood as the language of abuse, such as when a Christian starts inanely preaching about hell, sin and the need to repent, it can be like pushing a button or emotional trigger in the de-convert. Such insensitivity on the part of the Christian will likely be viewed as a personal attack and could very well be met with exasperation, resentment, or even aggressive resistance. Besides, at the very least, unsolicited preaching is annoying.
Allowing ex-Christians to express their frustrations in a virtual atmosphere of anonymity gives those who are hurting the chance to clear the air, vent, meet others with similar experiences, and in time analyze, reassess and heal from the abuse. While a Christian might be offended by disparaging comments leveled at Christianity, no one is forced to read or listen to what is shared here. Most ex-Christians, regardless of whether struggling with de-conversion issues or not, do not want to shout down believers at work, or family members at home, or strangers on the street. Airing grievances among like-minded people can be a great relief. For some, de-conversion places them not just outside the church, but outside of family, outside of friendships, or even outside the community where they live. For personal reasons, many de-converts keep their de-conversion a secret, and therefore have no one with whom to discuss the issues they’re facing. This forum provides a haven-of-sorts to those people. Sometimes, just the knowledge that you’re not alone can be a comfort, an encouragement.
Most people do not convert on a whim. They don’t wake up one day and blandly decide, “Today I’ll become a Christian.” Conversion is usually accompanied by a strong emotional experience brought on by any number of motivators. Later, that emotional experience is ratified with what the convert believes to be a logical or intelligent thought process. Still, the initial entry into faith is nearly always primarily an emotional experience. De-conversion works similarly, but in reverse. True converts do not one day suddenly wake up and insipidly deny the faith. True converts who de-convert go through weeks, months or years of agonizing soul-searching before coming to the conclusion that Christianity is false. While conversion to Christianity is begun with an emotional episode followed by logical reasons to maintain belief, the pattern of de-conversion is frequently begun with the realization that "the faith" has illogical holes. Through those holes tumbles emotional fallout. The early joy of conversion at “accepting the truth” is often mirrored by disappointment, depression, or anger at discovering the "real truth" at de-conversion. While there is a measure of relief and freedom when the bonds of religious slavery are finally broken, all the torn life connections can rend ugly, emotional scars.
Reformed alcoholics and smokers frequently become the most ardent campaigners against their former addictions. Similarly, committed Christian converts frequently become the most passionate apostates.
A piece of advice to the Christian who feels compelled to post responses on this website: Realize that most of the former Christians you are communicating with here have been saturated with every apologetic you might present. None have left the faith easily, and none have left without some degree of emotional scarring. Many of those scars haven’t healed. If you decide that it is your heavenly mission to open those wounds afresh, expect that you may receive a biting response.
) Why are you so angry? It doesn’t make sense to be angry about God, since you don’t believe there is a God. You people are like talking to robots that only repeat their programming. I feel so sad for you. You haven’t truly experienced Jesus or you would never say the things you say. I accept that you don’t believe, but why be disrespectful of someone else’s religion? I don’t get it, why would you need encouragement in your ex-Christianity?
Various Christians regularly post these kinds of questions and quips to http://ExChristian.Net.
Since http://ExChristian.Net first went live, Christians of all denominational affiliations have posted remarks accusing ex-Christians of being bitter, unwilling to listen, not open to discussion, angry at God, angry at church, angry at Christians, or just plain angry. This emotional feeling about Christianity, say these Christians, is probably a sign that ex-Christians really know that Christianity is true. These Christians claim that if ex-Christians are truly free from religion, then they would retain no animosity toward, or interest in, Christianity. Ex-Christians, supposedly, should be able to peacefully live life, tolerant of all those who preach the Gospel, without ever expressing any negativity about Christianity. Any lingering resentment, say these Christians, shows that ex-Christians, deep down, still believe in Jesus.
Unfortunately, Christians are not the only ones who misunderstand an Ex-Christian’s frustration. Atheists, who have never had the misfortune of being entangled in the web of Christianity, occasionally level similar censures.
Margaret Thaler Singer, PhD, a clinical psychologist and former professor of psychology at UC Berkeley, did ground-breaking research on the brainwashing of American soldiers captured during the Korean War. She was often sought out by lawyers as an expert witness in high-profile cases, including the People's Temple and the mass murder-suicide at Jonestown, Guyana, as well as the Branch Davidian and Heaven's Gate cults. Over the years, she interviewed more than 4,000 current and former cult members, including Charles Manson and many of his followers. The terms post-cult trauma or post-cult syndrome were first used by Singer to describe the intense emotional problems that some cult members experience at de-conversion. According to her, abandoning a cult can be traumatic for former cult members.
For those who aren’t used to thinking of Christianity as a cult, I should probably stop here and explain. The word cult is widely used in today’s conversations to describe new religious movements outside the mainstream. These “cults” often use some form of mind-control, or brainwashing to keep adherents faithful. Although many so-called cults differ little from many mainstream religions, political correctness avoids using the negative connotations associated with the word “cult” when referencing religions with a rich history and a large following. Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Shintoism, etc, are not called cults, because they are all considered mainstream religions, and political correctness demands they always be addressed respectfully. Modern Christianity is unquestionably within the mainstream in the 21st century, but it cannot be denied that Christianity was once a new religion, a brand new cult, with beliefs that were considered quite strange by the rest of society. It seems that a cult becomes transformed into an accepted religion if the cult attracts enough followers and survives long enough. I would posit that all religions start out as cults and can accurately be called cults as long as they exist, regardless of their comparative popularity or widespread acceptance. While most mainstream Christian churches do not practice the aggressive mind-control tactics of the newer cults, a true Christian is still expected to attend church regularly, attend home meetings, get involved with ministry outreach, spend time in personal prayer and study, lead family devotions, tithe regularly, hang out with Christians, read Christian books, avoid worldly entertainment, be transformed by the renewing of the mind… The list could go on, and as any “true Christian™ knows, that list is long.
Here’s an excerpt from a recent comment posted on http://exchristian.net by a young teen who considers himself to be a true believer:
“i im a cristian an i always will be i accepted jesus(my savior) into my heart and age 8 and i am now 15.
We (humans) are full of sin. there is not one little bit of us thats not full of sin.
the punishment for this sin is that we must go to hell and burn but, god sent his one and only son down to earth to live a life on earth without sin and die one a cross for us so that we could live and eternal life in heaven. there is so much truth in the bible that would prove all this to be true.
Regrettably, whether this young man or his family called it religious indoctrination, catechism, or whatever, he has been brainwashed. That washing may have been accomplished gradually over the course of several years, but it was, nonetheless, accomplished.
So, if religious training can be described as a kind of brainwashing, so what? Why the anger? Why the bitterness? Why the visceral language? Why all the venting?
The answer is simple:the trauma of leaving Christianity is no different than the trauma experienced from leaving a modern, spiritually abusive, mind-control cult.
From Wikipedia:
“Spiritual abuse is not necessarily deliberate, but may be the outcome of an over-emphasis on a particular doctrine (e.g. the teaching that everyone outside the group will go to hell) or the genuine belief that the will of God is being followed … In Christianity, spiritual abuse is most prevalent in … churches related to fundamentalism, very conservative evangelicalism and in some of the churches in the charismatic movement or Pentecostalism.”
Another branch that could be included in this list is Christian Reconstructionism.
When a person is in a long-term, abusive relationship, nearly everything that happens within that relationship seems normal. How often do abused wives believe they deserve the abuse? How often do abused children deny that anything is wrong? However, once that person has left the abusive relationship, behavior that once seemed routine is soon recognized as aberrant. Since religious cultic behavioral patterns are meant to envelope every part of person’s life—friends, family, money, social experiences, literature, entertainment, thoughts, etc.—when a person leaves a cultic womb, that person leaves behind a significant portion of life, and it can hurt. Then, when a vigilant cultist knocks on the door to parrot rhetoric now understood as the language of abuse, such as when a Christian starts inanely preaching about hell, sin and the need to repent, it can be like pushing a button or emotional trigger in the de-convert. Such insensitivity on the part of the Christian will likely be viewed as a personal attack and could very well be met with exasperation, resentment, or even aggressive resistance. Besides, at the very least, unsolicited preaching is annoying.
Allowing ex-Christians to express their frustrations in a virtual atmosphere of anonymity gives those who are hurting the chance to clear the air, vent, meet others with similar experiences, and in time analyze, reassess and heal from the abuse. While a Christian might be offended by disparaging comments leveled at Christianity, no one is forced to read or listen to what is shared here. Most ex-Christians, regardless of whether struggling with de-conversion issues or not, do not want to shout down believers at work, or family members at home, or strangers on the street. Airing grievances among like-minded people can be a great relief. For some, de-conversion places them not just outside the church, but outside of family, outside of friendships, or even outside the community where they live. For personal reasons, many de-converts keep their de-conversion a secret, and therefore have no one with whom to discuss the issues they’re facing. This forum provides a haven-of-sorts to those people. Sometimes, just the knowledge that you’re not alone can be a comfort, an encouragement.
Most people do not convert on a whim. They don’t wake up one day and blandly decide, “Today I’ll become a Christian.” Conversion is usually accompanied by a strong emotional experience brought on by any number of motivators. Later, that emotional experience is ratified with what the convert believes to be a logical or intelligent thought process. Still, the initial entry into faith is nearly always primarily an emotional experience. De-conversion works similarly, but in reverse. True converts do not one day suddenly wake up and insipidly deny the faith. True converts who de-convert go through weeks, months or years of agonizing soul-searching before coming to the conclusion that Christianity is false. While conversion to Christianity is begun with an emotional episode followed by logical reasons to maintain belief, the pattern of de-conversion is frequently begun with the realization that "the faith" has illogical holes. Through those holes tumbles emotional fallout. The early joy of conversion at “accepting the truth” is often mirrored by disappointment, depression, or anger at discovering the "real truth" at de-conversion. While there is a measure of relief and freedom when the bonds of religious slavery are finally broken, all the torn life connections can rend ugly, emotional scars.
Reformed alcoholics and smokers frequently become the most ardent campaigners against their former addictions. Similarly, committed Christian converts frequently become the most passionate apostates.
A piece of advice to the Christian who feels compelled to post responses on this website: Realize that most of the former Christians you are communicating with here have been saturated with every apologetic you might present. None have left the faith easily, and none have left without some degree of emotional scarring. Many of those scars haven’t healed. If you decide that it is your heavenly mission to open those wounds afresh, expect that you may receive a biting response.
The last part about reopening
wounds and expect a bite in return
is correct.
I thought I was not mature enough with my reactions after all those years, but I realise it's much
deeper than that.
No more needs to be said!
We (humans) are full of sin. there is not one little bit of us thats not full of sin.
the punishment for this sin is that we must go to hell and burn but, god sent his one and only son down to earth to live a life on earth without sin and die one a cross for us so that we could live and eternal life in heaven. there is so much truth in the bible that would prove all this to be true.
When I got to typo/grammatical error number 10 before the completion of reading the second sentence of a specimen that should be entering his sophomore year of high school I had to stop. Unbelievably pathetic. Then I made myself read the rest. The last sentence is a real gem. This is just so sad.
So now we all need to do this with the concept of "the state" and we can all get better.
.........Im talking to idiots...Im tired, please leave us alone!!!!
And to Anony who mentioned alien abduction believers, they deserve some kind of credibility. At least we have video footage and pictures of UFOs that show there's a possibility that there's life on other planets. As far as the so called god and jesus of the buybull, they haven't given us anything to go on at all.
Dan
These jackasses always think they have found the perfect recipie of religion they try to sell us on, and if we would all just give it a chance, we'd be true Christians.
Again, as I have said many times on this website, before 1492 there was not a single bible or church on American soil. Columbus was not the first one to discover America. America was discovered many thousands of years before Columbus, by the American Indians.
The American Indians had their own culture and inter commerce, and structure and lived happily and prospered many thousands of years without the knowledge of a biblical god or jesus.
The whiteman brought over his biblical god and jesus, and killed most of the Indians, either with disease or weapons and then stole all their land in commission of the name of god and jesus, it may seem trivial to some people of today, but I happen to think it's an atrocity.
How can Christians hold their heads up and thank god for the food they eat, raised on stolen land and thank god for all the possessions that they own, when it all belongs to the American Indians.
And then Christians have the nerve to claim that America was build on Christian principles.
America needs to be educated in this area, instead of spreading their holier-than-thou Christian bullshit.
We need to back up 500 years and re-educate these self-righteous idiots.
Then they talk about Hitler, where are Christian principles any different?
Hitler massacred Jews.
Christians massacred Indians.
Where's honor in claiming to be a Christian?
If Hitler is bound straight to hell, then so are all Christians.
I would not want the title Christian attached to my moniker.
Something I would think twice about, if I claimed to be a Christian.
Oh I forgot, Christians do not think, nor do they want to.
I'm proud to be non-xtian, and not affilliated with any religion.
The word religion sparks thoughts of elitest hatred and self-fulfilling tyrany and concurring and invading peoples lands for the will of their make believe god, look what a freaking mess we've made in Iraq, we'll never be able to leave that stinking hell hole. Isn't jesus just so wonderful?
Ben, really well said about Columbus, 1492, and the land stollen from the indians. I particularly like your comparison with Hitler.
Another reason ex-christians get mad is because fundies give themselves permission to push their doctrines onto everyone else through manipulating political processes. American freedoms are constantly under attack from these people, who regard their own freedoms as the only truly valid ones.
For starters, in the Caribbean, the Caribes preyed on the Taino and other tribes.
In Mexico, the Aztecs extorted captives from their neighbors, who they then sacrificed on the tops of the pyramids. The Conquistadors found a pile of skulls number either 25,000 or 100,000 (can't remember which, but for a pre-industrial society, that's an efficient killing machine).
Just how the hell do you know, mq?
We're talking about America, USA, not Mexico, not the Carribean...duh!!!
None the less, the Indians never claimed to be guided under the direction of a godly authority, as Christians do, I know it hurts mq, but you need to shake off and let go of your desire for an imaginary god, you need to let go of your childhood fantasy.
go to:
http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm
It's not surprising that an anti-Christian would bring up the indians. People on this hell-bound site are always complaining that God in the Old Testament was cruel, too. But it's the same difference. Those caanites and all the others that our virtuous Creator saw fit to slew were all just heathens, anyways, and it's a good thing that they were slewed down to infant children, who would just have grown up to be as evil as their parents.
And, don't even get me started about the Holy Bible supporting slavery. Afican-Americans ought to get down on their knees and praise Jesus that they were brought out of sin and ignorance in Africa and taught to be Christians in America. God knows what he's doing!!!!!!!
It's not surprising that an anti-Christian would bring up the indians. People on this hell-bound site are always complaining that God in the Old Testament was cruel, too. But it's the same difference. Those caanites and all the others that our virtuous Creator saw fit to slew were all just heathens, anyways, and it's a good thing that they were slewed down to infant children, who would just have grown up to be as evil as their parents.
And, don't even get me started about the Holy Bible supporting slavery. Well, you can read it either way, but so what if it did? Afican-Americans ought to get down on their knees and praise Jesus that they were brought out of sin and ignorance in Africa and taught to be Christians in America. God knows what he's doing!!!!!!!
As for christianity and anger: What does anger me about it is the hypocrisy. As a relatively recent ex-christian (two years), I sometimes struggle with issues such as what if I'm wrong and the like, while my mother and sister are adamant about their being good christians when it's blatantly obvious they don't give a shit. But they will tell me they believe in some sort of sunday school christianity any time without a hint of blushing. That's the kind of stuff that annoys me too. I justdon't see the point of such hypocrisy.
Belinda, you can only be joking, haha! Or is it Bob Schlitz? What a kidder...
I had no idea!! I ought to go kill my son right away, he is a HunkPapa Sioux. Even worse- I am a Romani- on my mothers side! Last but not least, a damn viking decendant- my fathers side!!! LOL! I love to be alive and distrub you with my existence!!! LOL, LOL! You're so funny!
There's no such thing as an idyllic existance. Life is always a combination of ups and downs, strengths and weaknesses, possitives and negatives.
The point Ben made was that the Native Americans had a thriving, successful culture here in North America for thousands of years before any bible preachers showed up. And that Christianity, by and large, has done nothing but excuse the atrocities committed by europeans on Native Americans.
Oh, and as far as the Aztecs go, I don't think their problem was that they weren't Christian, but that they were basically fundamentalists.
Not saying this was the work of a troll (though the initials may give you some indication), but really what he/she/it said is just the logical extension of the thot that our old friend mq59 blessed us with. Think about it.
" The Native Americans did not live an idyllic existence pre-1492."
Lorena said:
Isn't it funny how the christian(s) who post here always pick on something said in the thread instead of dealing with the real issues from the main article?
BTW, I think mg59, john, and wayne are all the same person. Our "nice" christian friend just posts under different names. Or maybe it is that the brainwashing is so profound that they all "sound" the same.
we do? I quit falling for those things WAY before I had problems with a 2000 year old dead guy rising from the dead so his father won't hurt human beings. But, as far as the video/pictures. Do you have anything that can be "evaluated" by the experts? Or are you getting things off the History/Discovery/Sci/Fi Channel?
God designed us in such a way that when we encountered other cultures, our natural instinct is to compete for survival, to see which one is the smartest, the strongest, and the most capable of surviving the competition.
Whoever came out on top became gods favorites. That is why we have "IN God WE Trust" printed on our money. If the American Indian had consistently kicked all the pilgrims asses, the slogan on the money would say "IN Mother Earth WE Trust"
The white Anglo Saxon dominance in America has eroded significantly over the years, and if we survive as a nation, it will be ruled by an entirely new race of people, consisting of a mixture of American Indians, South American Aztec/Spanish (Mexicans), Chinese, etc.
The future owners of this country will have the genetic makeup of virtually every race of people in the world. I.E, Derek Jeeter, Colin Powell, Mariah Carrey, Halle Berry. There are very few "Pure" African Americans in this country. Didn't Thomas Jefferson have a child with one of his slave?
That inevitability was designed into us from the beginning. That inevitability is why we are who we are.
Dan (We must always subdue and multiply, as it says in the bible)
You know those illogical holes in Christianity that the author was talking about that cause deconversions? Well, here's one inside your own little verbal attack on us. Kill the babies of the Caananites? Because they would grow up evil??? Well tell me about those virgins that the Israelites were allowed to keep and rape as their own? Where's the logic in keeping those evil virgins? Oh right... women are property.... Christianity will burn under the light of scrutiny and logic. But to the Faithful(the blind) there are no such problems as the one i just metioned. Praise Jesus and get me a virgin from the spoils of war!!!
Thank you so much!
~Avalon
BS and BS for short!
Thanks so much for a great read.
"Just Me, All Along,"
It took to the second paragraph for my blood pressure to come down-- quickly, for I started laughing out loud. Thanks for the silly parody (ouch, albeit too close to spot-on mimicry!).
So happy to be reading reason.
You keep mentioning this god, well show us this god you're so damned sure that exists.
We're waiting....
Ben, quit ragging on my brothers in sisters in Christ Jesus. Mq59 is correct in stating that some indians practised human sacrifice and canabalism.
brothers and sisters in christ? where the hell did you here such bullshit?
human sacrifice, yeah they tossed virgin boys and girls into the volcanos, and the embodyment of christ, canabalism, you brainless twit.
"Dano said, God designed us in such a way that when we encountered other cultures,
You keep mentioning this god, well show us this god you're so damned sure that exists.
We're waiting...."
Dan explains:
I use the word God interchangeably with, creator, supreme being, prime mover, cause of everything, old man with a beard, father in heaven, big mucky muck, designer of human evolution, and for whatever anyone has in their mind when they are attempting to put a name to whatever lit the big fire cracker 5 billion years ago.
God is just a noun, and the ONLY meaning it has is in the mind of the person using that noun as a convenient word for describing "The Force," or designer of the universe that also exists uniquely or differently in everyone's mind or not at all.
We cannot profess to know anything about something, unless we are able to define what we are we are talking about.
I cant show you God because I don't know what God is, and neither does anyone else who has ever lived or is living now.
Dan (AGNOSTIC)
I kept thinking of all the people I could send this to help them understand the process but then I realized, from experience, that unless an individual is truly seeking out the truth, meaning that they are open to abandon any or all previously held notions (beliefs) in order to receive the hard truth, at any cost to themselves, they will not “hear” nor can they “see”.
It is identical to the experience I had at being reborn. I felt as though I had “been blind, but now I see”, or as the old book says “that a veil had been lifted”. I remember consciously having to make that decision to “open” my mind to accept what I was being told about the gospel. Until then, I was completely locked up and unable to change. So, I doubt that it would help as much as I hoped. This is how I de-converted, I was desperately seeking “the truth” beyond what mere men had revealed to me and had consciously accepted the fact that I/we could be wrong, tracing the bibles history from birth to see if any deviations from the original message could have steered the church in the wrong direction thereby influencing the modern church to believe an altered message (lie). I found what I suspected deep in my heart, which allowed my mind to be willing to open further to receive more truth.
As for the comments following the article, particularly where potential christians may have posted, and ex-christians have responded to them. I think it serves nicely as proof of the articles point. We are highly sensitive to the jargon that led us into captivity to begin with and I think that we are passionate about exterminating the influence of such atrocities much in the same way that we were excited to extinguish the influence of Hitler and other mass controlling figures who have plagued humanity.
Thanks again Dave and fellow extians for your commitment to exposing the meme.
Well done. Well done, indeed.
have we all read Dave's anti-testimony?
Dave Webmaster,
Let’s reconstruct the outcomes of your work and imagine where you'd be. All your letters to all the denominations were read and past up the line. Suddenly they all realised that Dave was right. A genius! Not to mention whilst handing out tracks many were moved by what you were doing and inquired “Dave, what must I do to be saved?”
Anyway the churches all get together and because the brilliant intellectual Dave has made them come to their senses they form the super-dooper-multi-denominational church and appoint none other than you Dave as the CEO / High priest / Grand Poobar. They also make you head of their newly founded theological department. You now do lunch with the Pope.
Everything would be different wouldn’t it Dave? No exchristian.net instead super-dooper-multi-denominational-church.com and you of course would be profiled at /grandpoobar.
It didn’t work out the way you wanted it, did it? Poor poor Dave, and after all that effort. All that study all the witnessing gone to waste. No, wait, there is a purpose. Do the next best thing head up exchristian.net. You are a mentor to thousands now. Well done Dave. And you have the ability to produce such futile arguments as “No True Christians”, aka Give me Ten Bucks and as one blogger put it “Lots of Big Malakas” (where has that blog gone Dave?) and the classic “Dear Believer” where you astound those that hang on every word that drips from your mouth with supreme logic. You certainly know everything, don’t you Dave. How could God even compete with you?
Dave, do you delete blogs you don’t like? That don’t suit you. Blogs that could offend others (but not Grand-Poobar Dave) are OK. But anything that you don’t like – axe it! Do you change blogs to make them say things they didn’t intend? Do you reorder them? It’s good to be King isn’t it Dave.
Thanks.
P.S., Dave: I enjoyed your essay very much. Too bad it won't penetrate thick skulls and narrow minds.
When I am driving and I see a stupid Jesus fish on a car I get mad and want to give the idiot the bird or if I pass a car in a parking lot with one, I have the urge to rip it off. Until I read this article (thank you Dave) I really did not realize the depth or true reason for such anger. The x-smoker analogy was what hit home. I smoked for 6 years and when I quit, I became on of the worst non-smokers. I can’t stand to be in a room with smoke (or a Christian! HA!).
Just this last weekend my in-laws were in town and my father-in-law was saying how sweet his other son’s new girlfriend is… his exact words were he…”just thinks the world of her cause she is a good Christian girl, always going to church.” I just want to poke his f—king eyes out. My husband saw my face turn red and quickly changed the subject.
Dave- thanks you again for helping my at least understand the anger … I don’t see it going away anytime soon.
go to:
http://nomorefakegods.blogspot.com/
for laughs, and to vent some too.
Thanks, Ben
I myself have never touch drugs, but my brother has. Actually, I never touch drugs BECAUSE he has. He's also the reason I quit smoking and don't really drink.(The most I've ever drank at one time was an entire beer can. It's not as much fun once you turn 18, anyway.) He's also probably the reason I don't steal.
I have a certain lack of respect for drug adicts, and I think the only good think about drugs can be summed up in two words, "Natural Selection".
There's usually a REASON people quit things. People don't just stop drinking for no reason. Sometimes, people just think about it for a moment and decide to stop drinking because, intelectually, they figure out that it's probably not good for their liver. Usually, however, they stop drinking because there's a downside to drinking, maybe it's a bad hangover, maybe they crash their car, maybe they saw someone else drink and do some thing bad or had something bad happen to them. But in any case they stop drinking because the downsides far outweigh the benefits. In some cases, they see downsides that are so horrible that they deside to try and prevent others from experiencing the same downsides.
The fact that you see people saying that drink is a good idea is NOT proof that it's actually a good idea, no matter what the beer company's pamphlet says. Beer ads do NOT contain any more truth than the warning labels on cigaret packets. You can't point to a beer ad and say "See? The ad says it's good for you." that's circular logic.
Uh...
I'm sorry, did I miss the point of your post?
I apologise in advance if I did indeed completely miss the point, or If I make unfair assumptions aout you, but for the rest of this post I'm going to assume that your pont was "Native Americans were cruel to eachother, and their lives were improved by disease, stolen land, slavery, rape, etc, therefore Christianity is true."
No one lives idealic livces anywhere. But things only got worse for them in 1492. Chris Rock once pointed out pricisely how bad things were by pinting out, "When was the last time you saw two indians?" That's how bad things got for native americans post 1492.
Besides, Christians don't spread Christianity through critical reason, serious debates or scientific demonstrations. They hate those things, actually. No, generally, christianity is spread through slavery and invasion. So as it turns out, the number of people that believe in Christianity does indeed say allot about Christianity.
You racist bitch!
I suppoose you also think that Hitler was doing the Jews a favour.
If God meant for you to have America, why didn't he just put you there in the first place?
Besides, if Christianity was true, racism wouldn't even be posible. Think about it;
Okay, so evolution doesn't exist, that means that natural selection doesn't work, and DNA never mutates. Okay.
Now, the first human God created was Adam. Eve was created from Adam's rib. Men have both an x chromesome and a Y chromesome, and women have two X's, so presumably God simply removed the Y and doubled the X's. Okay.
Therefore, Aman and Eve were basically ginetic identical twins, with nO ginetic variation. And, since evolution doesn't work because DNA never mutates, this means that there is no genetic variation at all.
Why, then, are there, black people, white people, etc?
Good thing those righteous, godly Caucasians travelled across the sea to do God's work, eh? Good thing they civilized the savages by continually lying to them, cheating them, and slaughtering them.
God was surely pleased.
Let me ask you a simple question;
If it is "good" to kill inocent people before they even get a chance to do anything wrong, then what the hell is "evil"?
Just imagine what America was like, it was at it's finest moments, no churches, no steeples, no jesus billboards, no religions no preachers, no hypocrasy, no tracts, no self-rightousness, no phoney bullshit, no parking lots, no shopping malls, no automobiles.
America was a land of pure resourses, people lived off of the land, what the land provided, that's how people survived, they did not need to run to a man built church every Sunday and give thanks to their mini-pope and imaginary god.
Look at what America has become, a money grubbing snot-nosed holier than thou, bunch of self-righteous christians, that have to run to a church every week to get the preachers approval and to replenish his funds, so he can tell you how wonderful you are and that his imaginary god loves you, what's up with that shit?
Look at what is going on over seas, basically the same thing here, one religion is better than the other religion, they think, when all religions should be abolished, then what will people have to fight over? Nothing!!!
Secondly, (and this isn't prosetylizing, I promise) I wanted to share something with you all that you may not be aware of.
I was never cultified, but was born into a Christian environment (mostly Presby.) After becoming more aware of the world around me as a teenager, and not finding much in the bible to satisfy the soul, much less the mind, I strayed and never went back. Along the way I kept reading bits and pieces of Eastern thought, practices and religions. Then about the age of 32 it dawned on me... I was a Buddhist and didn't even know it.
Read the following quotes and tell me this doesn't sound like an antithesis, antidote even, to the brainless Abrahamic Three:
---
The Buddha:
"Believe nothing. Belief is a confession of ignorance. Therefore do not even believe what even I tell you. All I can do is to teach you to enlighten yourselves. Your first duty is to abolish your ignorance, and only you yourselves can do this."
---
And here's a couple from the current Dalai Lama:
"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned."
"The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis."
---
Anyways, I just wanted to let you all know that there's not just Atheism or Agnosticism out there for the ex-Christian/Muslim/Jew. If you're an intellectual truth-seeker type, there's a lot here to appreciate. Now please don't throw stones.
(Terrific ideas of Buddha and Mr. Lama. Let us trust in nothing except that which is certainly certain without cause for doubt. Buddha tells us to not even believe him, yet we are to let him teach us? This is clearly fallible to a logical thinking man and just seems rather rediculous. You have to believe the teacher to be enlightened by the teacher.)
---> Hello, Mr. Stupid Annony. You dont know that you can follow a teacher's teaching without believing him/her as god. Buddha just said to not worship him as a deity and taught to find yourself. Is it that difficult for you to understand?
(And now the Lama is stating that we have our own authority above all others to reason and analyze things ourselves. Well, what if I so happen to reason that it is right for me to plant bombs throughout my city or rape and kill people? I hope that my reasoning would be O.K. with you because after all, the Dalai Lama says I have the ultimate authority to reason this way.)
---> Hello, Mr. Crazy Annony. It's sad to know that your ability of reasoning is only upto killing and raping others. Please try desperately to know that reasoning is not insanity.
( To end the sarcasm, there would be anarchy and chaos if all the various and sometimes insane people of this earth did not reason by a higher standard other than their own.)
---> So this is the conclusion of the stupidly crazy Annony person. When can you realize that the world is in chaos and bloody because of the religious crazy people who live by the "higher standard than their own" like you? Go away and play in your heaven of crazy and stupid people. You are misfit here on earth.
As for the "good" that christianity is supposedly doing today (foreign aid, food kitchens etc) it's all conditional. You get a meal, but you have to sit through a sermon, or read a tract or some other form of propaganda.
Now, regarding your statements about the crazy person who believes themselves normal in killing people. There are such things as mental disease, and we have institutions for people like that (methinks "god" should undergoe some intense therapy)
Your argument is futile, because even you trust your own sense of judgement. You believe you can understand truth, or at least identify it when it is presented. You therefore trust your senses, your mind, and your (not quite) rational thinking. That's a lot of self trust you've got there.
Many people have done evil with and without religion, and many people have done good with and without religion, so any claim of a superior moral stance are moot. Humans are not intrinsically selfish and evil, nor are we inherantly good and kind
Anony, please read. Please educate yourself. Your ignorance is horrific: Click here and here
Don't be an ignorant fundie. It's ugly.
"Anything that divides people breeds inhumanity. Religion serves that ugly purpose."
http://skeptically.org/enlightenment/id7.html
"A Catholic Timeline of Events Relating to Jews, Anti-Judaism, Antisemitism, and the Holocaust, From the 3rd Century to the Beginning of the Third Millennium, Prepared by Jerry Darring"
http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/mine/timeline.htm
"VICTIMS OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH"
http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm
Religion Sucks!
but, at what point does skepticism become paranoia, or at least a broken record looping in a psycho's ears?
dude, he doesn't tell you what to think, he tells how to think... and discourages those who don't quite get it. buddhism doesn't have the patience for idiots, in other words.
and if you want to know the truth, it's the dualism thing that sets it apart from the rest.... no more good/evil god/devil black/white.... no self.
so, i'm assuming this was your first and only window into buddhism, my three quotes? you need to read more about it, dude.. a lot more. look up dualism, if you need to.
do you think you can handle that, mr. anon?
==
The Buddha taught some people the teachings of duality that help them
avoid sin and acquire spiritual merit. To others he taught non-duality, that some find profoundly frightening.
-Nagarjuna
Does anybody know?
It depends on which Christian you ask. All that post here and identify themselves as Christian consider themselves to be true Christians. Interestingly, many would not consider each other to be true Christians.
The term is used primarily to label those self-proclaimed Christians whose arrogance and ignorance exceeds the average.
No. Wait a minute. A true Christian is one who is able to hear the full gospel when another true Christian is making ecstatic utterance.
No. Wait a minute. In the book of Acts there was no ecstatic utterance. The apostles spoke in specific foreign languages they had never known (Acts names the languages).
Oh, Crap! I'm all confused.
That is a complete oxymoron! There can be no true christian when the religion is false!
Marilyn Manson And The cULT oF hERo wOrShIp
http://beepbeepitsme.blogspot.com/
Favorite book: The Bible
Bwa-ahahahahaaa!!
http://www.okcupid.com/profile?u=MusicGirl88
I know it's wrong to bash people I don't know, but man - why are there people like this??? Hahaa!!
wes(at)vip(dot)net
I'm gonna call myself 'Wez' now seeing how there's two of us...
Bwa-ahahahhaaaaa! Har har!!!!
That's what we need - Christians On Fire!! Hahahaaa! Burn! burn!!
wes(at)vip(dot)net
YOUR ALL GOING TO HELL~
Hi little girl!---for future reference, it's boo "HOO", if you want to engage in mockery..... and it's "YOU'RE" going to hell, not, "YOUR" going to hell. "You're" is the contraction for "you are"; "your" shows possession......as in, "get YOUR scrawny little ass back in school, you uneducated little twit!"
lol!